diff --git a/bin/gtk_dnd_demo.py b/bin/gtk_dnd_demo.py
new file mode 100644
--- /dev/null
+++ b/bin/gtk_dnd_demo.py
@@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
+#!bin/python
+import run_local
+import gtk
+import sys
+sys.path.append(".")
+from rdflib import URIRef
+from light9.editchoicegtk import EditChoice, Local
+from light9.observable import Observable
+from light9.rdfdb.syncedgraph import SyncedGraph
+
+win = gtk.Window()
+
+graph = SyncedGraph("gtkdnddemo")
+
+r1 = URIRef("http://example.com/interestingThing")
+v = Observable(r1)
+win.add(EditChoice(graph, v))
+win.show_all()
+gtk.main()
diff --git a/bin/tkdnd_minimal_drop.py b/bin/tkdnd_minimal_drop.py
new file mode 100644
--- /dev/null
+++ b/bin/tkdnd_minimal_drop.py
@@ -0,0 +1,42 @@
+#!bin/python
+from run_local import log
+import Tkinter as tk
+from light9.tkdnd import initTkdnd, dropTargetRegister
+from twisted.internet import reactor, tksupport
+
+root = tk.Tk()
+initTkdnd(root.tk, "tkdnd/trunk/")
+label = tk.Label(root, borderwidth=2, relief='groove', padx=10, pady=10)
+label.pack()
+label.config(text="drop target %s" % label._w)
+
+frame1 = tk.Frame()
+frame1.pack()
+
+labelInner = tk.Label(frame1, borderwidth=2,
+                      relief='groove', padx=10, pady=10)
+labelInner.pack(side='left')
+labelInner.config(text="drop target inner %s" % labelInner._w)
+tk.Label(frame1, text="not a target").pack(side='left')
+
+
+def onDrop(ev):
+    print "onDrop", ev
+def enter(ev):
+    print 'enter', ev
+def leave(ev):
+    print 'leave', ev
+dropTargetRegister(label, onDrop=onDrop, onDropEnter=enter, onDropLeave=leave,
+                   hoverStyle=dict(background="yellow", relief='groove'))
+
+dropTargetRegister(labelInner, onDrop=onDrop, onDropEnter=enter, onDropLeave=leave,
+                   hoverStyle=dict(background="yellow", relief='groove'))
+
+def prn():
+    print "cont", root.winfo_containing(201,151)
+b = tk.Button(root, text="coord", command=prn)
+b.pack()
+
+#tk.mainloop()
+tksupport.install(root,ms=10)
+reactor.run()